Episode #6: Choosing the Wrong Business Partner
In the final episode of season one, Eman talks to Emily Thompson – co-founder of podcast and community Being Boss, and retail brand Almanac Supply, Co.
Emily opens up about the time her business partner quit on her (in a Slack message), and reflects on what she learnt from choosing the wrong co-founder for her dream retail business.
It turns out, some people were meant to be business owners. Others… were not.
Find the transcript of this episode on my site, emancopyco.com/podcast
Listen to the Episode
Show notes
Links from this episode:
Being Boss on Instagram: @beingbossclub
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Eman Ismail: [00:00:00] When Instagram launched Reels in 2020, Australian business owners, Alisha Marfatia and Monique Lombardo were already successful Instagram coaches who were cooking up a storm in their industry. But they didn't know each other. Alisha ran her own business in Melbourne and Mon run her own business and Sydney.
That all changed when one day Alisha decided to slide into Mon's DMs and introduce herself. That was the start of an amazing friendship.
With Reels rising in popularity and business owners not really being sure how to use them, Alisha pitched Mon the idea of a lifetime. The pitch let's build an online course that teaches business owners, how to use Reels together-- even though they'd never met in real life.
[00:01:00] Not many people would do it, but they did. Within 10 months, their online course Rise with Reels had made over $650,000 in revenue. And between that course and two solo businesses, they generated over a million dollars in just 10 months.
After nine months of building a business together, Alisha and Mon finally met up in real life. And today their business continues to grow.
But not all business partnerships go like Mon's and Alisha's did, even between friends who've known each other for years. Some partnerships like Emily Thompson's fall apart before they've even really begun.
Emily Thompson: There was never any conversations, never any hint whatsoever that like, you know, there was any discomfort or any sort of questioning of anything.
Out of nowhere she sent me a Slack message saying that she quit.
Eman Ismail: On today's show, I'm speaking to Emily Thompson, the co-founder and host at Being Boss and the founder and CEO of Almanac Supply [00:02:00] Co, about how choosing the wrong business partner almost cost her, her entire company.
Emily Thompson: It taught me things about myself that I never would have learned otherwise that makes me as efficient and effective and self-aware and all of the things that I am now that I would not take back for anything.
Eman Ismail: Welcome to Mistakes That Made Me, the podcast that asks extraordinary business owners to share their biggest business mistake so you know what not to do on your road to success. My name's Eman Ismail, and I'm an email, strategist and copywriter for online business owners and e-commerce brands. I'm a podcast lover, a pizza binger, a proud mama of two.
And I have this radical idea that if maybe us business owners were a little less guarded and a lot more open about the mistakes we've made, we could help each other grow a business that brings us a more joy and less regret.
Hey [00:03:00] Emily, thank you so much for being here.
Emily Thompson: Eman, I am pleased to be here. I'm very sort of scare sighted this chat.
Eman Ismail: You know, I like that.
Emily Thompson: Good, good, good, good.
Tell us who you are and what you do.
Emily Thompson: Who am I? Multihyphenate all the way. But I think whenever I think of like overarching sort of who I am professionally, I am a business person. I am a business person. So I, am from the south in the U.S. love nature, love being outside. I've always grown up like, you know, near rivers and, and in the forest and like in towns and cities, but like always in the kinds of places where if I drive, you know, 10 minutes, I'm in the middle of nowhere.
And, and so always sort of enjoyed that element of, of my life here. In college. I got a degree in geography because I love being [00:04:00] outside and I love sort of studying, studying that and gain this perspective. And in the geography world, we call it the geographic eye, this sort of ability to see large processes in a way that not a lot of people can.
And so think about literally like the formations of mountains or how like weather systems move across land masses and those sorts of things. It's very sort of large scale or broad scale view of the world. And it's processes that at the time, I thought was just like, land forms and whatnot. And these days I recognize as sort of some of the first seeds that sort of became my, my business interests.
I owned a business very early on. I bought a tanning salon at the age of 18, which was a funny little trippy scenario, that worked out really well. And I knew at that point that I would always love business. I sold it a couple of years later, finished school and then fell in love with online business. I discovered Etsy whenever Etsy was still a baby. [00:05:00] Like in the very first year or two or three of Etsy, I was there and I started making and selling jewelry online. And then I started dabbling in websites, spent about 10 years working in the realm of websites for creative business owners. So I was like working with all of my creative Etsy friends to get them into their own website, turned into a podcast.
So all of that to say, like I have, I've spent my life cultivating this viewpoint and appreciation that sort of spans this bridge between nature and the physical world and business in both. But then on the other side, this like love of the internet and being online and connecting to a community.
I also have a family. I have a daughter. I live with my partner who is also my business partner. We have a dog, I like to cook and garden and those sorts of things and, and spend a lot of time on the internet. So I guess in a nutshell, that's kind of me.[00:06:00]
Eman Ismail: Love it. And something you said in there, made me, I think, realize one of the reasons I feel super connected to you. I have always felt like I, I mean, I, I love, I love copywriting. I love emails. I love all of that. But I feel like a business owner first and email expert second. And I like to think that I am creating a version of myself that would be able to replace that email expert copywriter role with anything. Maybe not anything. But, you know, with something else and still be a business owner and be able to create a successful business.
I hope I like to think that I I'm a business owner first. Like that is my thing. And copywriting is the tool that I have used to, you know, grow the business that I've always wanted. And I get that from you. I get that from [00:07:00] you and I, what you teach so well when, when you're talking about business is how to, yes, master your craft because of course that's super important, but also how to master being a business owner and a creative business owner as well.
So we're not doing business how everyone else tells us that we should be doing it. And again, that's one of the reasons I loved listening to you and Kathleen on the Being Boss podcast, which we'll go back to you in a second. But you always told us to do business how we want to do it in a way that feels good to us and not in a way that is, you know, everyone else is telling us to.
Emily Thompson: Yeah. I mean, you know, by education, I'm a geographer, which has nothing to do with business at all. I it's been through experience that I have become a business owner, and I do think it's through that experience that I've gained this ability to speak about business in a way that connects more directly to people who also are not educated in business.
Right. I can like speak business, layman terms of like, of really [00:08:00] getting in there with things that have fancy business terms that I don't even know what they are. And honestly, the terms don't matter. It's really the definition of them and the practicing of them and all of those things.
So yes, absolutely. I've always felt that I was a business owner first. And I do think that if you get, if you like have the mindset, if you understand the practices and just like the, you know, the general sort of realities of business, that it can be applied absolutely any field, which is something that I've been able to do, you know, over the course of, you know, almost 20 years of doing business is, you know, I had a tanning salon. I did online. I sold jewelry online for a couple of years. I ended up building a web design agency. I turned a podcast into a whole company. I started Almanac, which is my retail brand. Like that is, that is really a whole spectrum of kinds of businesses. And I'm able to do it all because I am a business owner first.
And, also through that, I am cultivating this sort of [00:09:00] practice of being a creative one. Of like not caring what the business terms are, or, you know, the industry standards are quote unquote, how you should do things. I do things in a way that feels good. And I definitely see that that is something that has resonated with our audience, because so many of you all are not educated in it. You just want to do the thing, you want to be great at it, but you also like want to have fun in it too. And there is a world of business where all of those things are possible and we've just somehow fell right in the middle of it.
Eman Ismail: Yes. And you mentioned this already a little bit, that your very first business was a tanning salon. Then you were selling jewelry on Etsy. Then you built your web design agency Indie Shopography. Then you started a podcast called Being Boss with your business bestie, Kathleen Shannon. That turned into, I mean, just an empire.
Emily Thompson: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: And, And then you created or built Almanac Supply Co, a retail brand that makes and curates products that help people [00:10:00] connect with nature, which goes back to what you were saying about your background in geography and your love of nature.
And it all just feels so interconnected. So, oh wait, I don't wanna forget about your book as well. And you've co-authored. That And you've coauthored "Being Boss: Take Control of Your Work and Live Life On Your Own Terms."
Now, you've done a lot. How many downloads is you'll be in the Being Boss podcast on now.
Emily Thompson: Oh, the team has been doing a countdown. We are probably like two or three weeks away from 11 million. Yeah.
Eman Ismail: Million, 11 million. Could you ever imagine that when you first started it?
Emily Thompson: No, absolutely not. Kathleen and I were almost starting the podcast, like a joke. It was just supposed to be this fun little project that we were going to do for an indetermined, indeterminate amount of time, whatever that word is. And you know, seven, almost seven and a half years later, 11 million downloads, a community, like all the things that we have. [00:11:00] No, it was never even a, like a twinkle in my eye that we would be at this place and yet here we are.
Eman Ismail: Oh, amazing. And when you look at both businesses, what is the revenue looking like? Cause I'm interested in which, which business is more profitable when we were talking about Being Boss and Almanac Supply Co? What's the revenue looking like for both?
Emily Thompson: So Being Boss still makes more revenue and will always, I think just be more profitable because of the nature of the business. Retail runs on very tight margins. So, you know, a ton of profit is not something that we're ever, no, I don't want to say that. I don't want to put that into the universe. It is less likely that Almanac will ever sort of meet the profitability that we see at Being Boss.
So still we're in that phase. I do think there is potential this year for Almanac to overcome Being Boss in revenue. We're a little still a little early in the year to like really know that for sure. But I think it is possible, which is [00:12:00] super exciting.
Eman Ismail: Very exciting.
Emily Thompson: Being Boss is still winning.
Eman Ismail: Basically.
That's so exciting. So for anyone who doesn't know, Almanac Supply Co sells things like candles, crystals. What, what other products?
Emily Thompson: Candles and crystals are the core of our product line, but we also sell a good bit of books as which is always a little mind blowing to me, lots of books, and then other, just like home and soft goods as well. We do have some t-shirts. Now that we have the larger retail store, we have things like doormats and market bags and like some sort of fun textile products like that.
But the core of it, I mean, the things that make up our, you know, top 10 most sold items are still going to be candles, crystals. And we do actually make some crystal jewelry in house as well. And that makes up some of our most sold items.
Eman Ismail: Amazing. And then going on to Being Boss, if that is going to be the kind of, well, the [00:13:00] revenue driver or the one that's bringing in more revenue, is that coming from the community?
Emily Thompson: Mostly sponsors. From our very first year, at least half of our revenue is coming from our sponsor relationships, things that we do. So podcast adds some additional sort of fun things we do on the side. Sometimes we partner up for content. We used to do a lot of events.
Eman Ismail: Yeah.
Emily Thompson: Um, and those are. Right. And those have been a little less actually completely non-existent for the past two, two and a half years. But mostly, but half sponsors and half the other things that we're doing, you could think of like half B2B and half B to our C, which is also a bit B, but technically C.
Eman Ismail: Ooh. I love it. I was, well, I remember at the time actually, when COVID hit, so you had organized the Being Boss conference and that was meant to go, that was meant to happen. And then of course, COVID hit and you had to shut it [00:14:00] down. But instead of shutting it down completely, you moved to online, which by the way, I, for one was super grateful about it because I could attend and I had the best time.
So COVID had just hit, my son's nursery had completely closed, my coworking space with closed down. I had no clue how I was going to make any money. But it was okay cause I had the Being Boss conference. So I had, I had these days of just enjoying, just being in your company and the other bosses, company and just learning about business in, I think, a very original way that only you can teach.
And so back then you had obviously Almanac Supply Co and the main source of revenue for that business was markets. And of course, with COVID hitting you had to close your markets. And you lost your main source of revenue, but you still managed to double your revenue that year.
And I listened to you on a podcast say that that was because you have so successfully diversified your presence, between the online world and the offline [00:15:00] world. So what does that look like for you, that diversification of income and diversification of presence?
Emily Thompson: Yeah. I mean, this is the, what I was preaching to my website clients 10 years ago, and everyone was going, why? Like, what's the point? And then 2020 hit. And they were all like, oh, this is the point. Too little too late. So I've always sort of seen this, this future of business that was bridged between online and offline. But this is something that I've been thinking on and working on for a decade.
So whenever I started Almanac, we very intentionally started online with the idea that building online would fuel offline growth. I say that, but even in our first, you know, month or two of being open, we did our first pop-up shop. So we were very immediately to also really focusing on growing in our like local area, which these days with the quote unquote, ease of doing business on the internet, people have forgotten the value of like being a business where you [00:16:00] are physically.
Says the geographer in the room.
So, so something that we always built into how we were doing Almanac. And I would say, you know, at about the time that 2020 hit, a third of our revenue was markets, and it was pretty evenly distributed amongst markets, online sales, and wholesale.
So we sort of had these three arms of revenue for Almanac and markets was a third of the business and it disappeared overnight. And that was incredibly difficult for us to sort of face and, and, you know, deal with in the same way that everyone had difficult things to face and deal with. But because we had sort of built this, built a stool, a three light, a sturdy three legged stool, kind of. But you chop off one leg, it's not very sturdy. But we were able to sort of flesh out the two other streams in a way that we were able to make up for market sales and otherwise just grow the other two streams in a way that we were able to double our revenue in [00:17:00] 2020.
I will say too, 2020 was our, I guess, third full year of business. Like we were kind of poised to do some really good growth in that year anyway. So we were able to just sort of capitalize on that and otherwise not have to fret the fact that our entire businesses disappeared because it didn't. Because we were so intentional about diversifying both the revenue streams and the avenues through which we get those, that we had a firmer foundation to stand on. We weren't, you know, hobbling around on a Pogo stick. We had built a business that could handle that sort of, sort of rearrangement of the world and grow from it because not only had we built the business, but I'm an entrepreneur like struggle and challenge and stuff is just, it's what I eat for breakfast. So it was like a, almost a fun chance to do some hardcore problem-solving and test and change and see what we could do. And it was a mindset that, that again, [00:18:00] really set us up for some, some good movement in a time when everyone else was just kind of freaking out.
That's so interesting to me because I intentionally created an solely online business because I wanted to create a business that I could move around the world. I anticipated that I'd be moving and I wanted to just be able to just close my laptop and bring everything with me. So it's, it's fascinating to me to hear you talk about intentionally building that the business offline, and now you have a store as well.
And you've hired more staff to work in that store, right? So you're going through a lot of changes right now.
Emily Thompson: Yeah, for sure. And I do want to sort of make a point about this, like living remotely, you know, moving around. But then there's still being benefits to focusing on growing a local network or working with local people.
Before we moved to where I am now, in Chattanooga, I don't think I had lived anywhere more than two and a half, three years, you [00:19:00] know, since I had left home to go to college. And still every time I move somewhere, as a business owner, I gained a local clientele. It was something that I did every time. I never did it with the idea of like, you know, oh, I can't do this because I'm going to be moving soon. It was like, let me make the connections now and start working with these clients in this remote business. Like, I will have lunch with you and we will be, you know, working together sort of locally, but I'm going to go back home or like on vacation, I'm a work on your project wherever we are.
And every time I've ever done that, it has been so much easier for me to gain that word of mouth marketing or referral network, because they know you, they've had lunch with you. They've like, you know, gone bar hopping with you, whatever it may be like you've been in the same physical location together.
And so the ties are a little tighter and you're able to sort of gain more from those relationships. And then yeah, you move because you've built a remote sort of unpluggable company, [00:20:00] but you still have those connections. And I can even think, you know, before we moved here, the place where we were living just before many of those connections are people that I still work with, that I still have really great relationships with in particular.
And so even though, you know, you, you can build a remote business and still have a local presence, I guess, is what I'm saying. Even if you want to move around as much as possible.
Emily Thompson: Which does bring me to the retail store because we did open that. We opened the first iteration, which was in a very small space in July of 2021, right whenever here the pandemic had disappeared. Disappeared for like three weeks. And we opened the store and it was amazing.
And then Delta hit and I will say that whenever we opened that first store, very similarly, we hedged our bets. We opened it thinking, okay, we're choosing this space. We're choosing to do it in this way so that if this pandemic hits again, or if something [00:21:00] happens, we cannot open, it's fine. We still have enough of an online presence of like a wholesale arm of our business, that it will actually carry the store if it ever needs to. And good thing we did because in August we closed down for a month, right around August and September.
Emily Thompson: And it was fine because we had totally built the business to do that in the environment that we were in.
So we've been in that space, for several months and I got the opportunity actually to lease my dream space, my dream retail space. I was, I was so excited whenever I heard that, it was coming available and we like snatched it.
We snatched it. I mean, it never sort of went on the market or anything. We, like, we went and met up with the previous business owner. We got the contact information to her, to her landlord. And we like, it never even had a for lease sign in the window. We got it.
And so, I guess we [00:22:00] had the small store for about nine, 10 months, and then we moved into a new, larger space almost literally across the street. And it has been open for less than a month. And so now we have this physical retail store, the overhead on it is a good bit more such that I don't ever want to have to shut it down and have online carry it like we could with the previous store. But I don't think that's going to be necessarily an issue fingers crossed.
But you know, I will say sort of the downside of it is on a whole other level, unlike any before, I'm tied to this city. So similar to like really loving the idea of having this, this sort of freedom to move around and be where you want to be. I don't have that right now. And I'm trying to like deal with it internally.
Emily Thompson: I'm very excited about this store and I love it, but there is something about setting down roots. I definitely have deeper roots in the city now than I have had [00:23:00] maybe in my whole life, which is a little disconcerting for freedom loving Emily.
Eman Ismail: Yeah. I can, I can imagine. I can imagine. I could ask you about your businesses all day and all night and get no, really. I could get, just try and look as much advice out of you as possible. But I'm going to move on to what I invited you here for today.
Emily, what is the mistake that made you?
Emily Thompson: Hmm. This was such a hard question. I spent a whole lot of time at thinking on this and thought it's like a true entrepreneur. I was like, but I've never made a mistake. In that, like, all of my steaks are such amazing learning opportunities that I'm glad for all of them.
Eman Ismail: Hence this podcast. Yes. That's what we're about.
Emily Thompson: Yeah, right. Of like, you know, what is, what is the, the mistake that made me? One of the women who works for me. She started working with me at Almanac and now she's working with me at Being Boss. And she [00:24:00] actually told me what my biggest mistake
Eman Ismail: Yeah, it was this
Emily.
Emily Thompson: you should probably talk about this one. And I was like, oh, you're fine.
So, the mistake that made me is I actually started Almanac with another business partner and that was dumb. Incredibly dumb. And it hurt me for a very long time.
Eman Ismail: Oh, okay. Let's go back a little bit. How did you and this person decided to start a business together? What is that story?
Emily Thompson: Sure. So she was actually a neighbor of mine. She lived next door to me and we became neighbor, friends. And like couple neighbor, friends where her and her husband, would hang out with me and my partner often. And we had a really great time. Lived next door to each other for a couple of years and built what I thought was an, what legitimately I think was a really great, friendly relationship.
We didn't talk [00:25:00] professional very much, though occasionally we would. And she knew what I did and I knew what she did. And I had voiced a desire to start a retail brand to her at some point. It was a dream of mine.
Emily Thompson: The years that I was working at Indie Shopography and my web design agency, building all of these really great websites and online presences for, you know, other retail stores and maker brands and all of these things. I had such FOMO of like, I'm so sad that this is not my website for my dreamy brand, that I am, you know, I am launching and I want to do all these things. And I've always had a very deep love for e-commerce and just like retail in general. And my very first sort of foray into business was that tanning salon. So literally brick and mortar being in a physical location. That is, that is where my sort of business, seed was planted. So I had voiced it to her at some point.
And I can't really remember how this conversation evolved, [00:26:00] but at some point it became an option that we could start it together. And it was never a super serious conversation, and just like sort of lightly mentioned here and there. Like, oh, if I ever had a store, like I'd carry things like this in it, or whatever it may be. Until one day, it kind of was a serious conversation. And I remember asking her to go to dinner with me and proposing basically, one December evening, if she would be interested in actually doing this thing. It had been niggling at me for a little while to do the thing. And it actually came at a time when I had shut down indie Shopography, I had gone full time at Being Boss, immediately realized that that was a quote unquote mistake as well, perhaps where I know that what gave me such great perspective for the purpose of the Being Boss podcast was that I was running another business.
And whenever I shut down that other business, I was just podcasting about podcasting about owning a podcast company. Like it felt very meta, and it was not the [00:27:00] perspective that I wanted to lend to our audience.
So I was like, okay, this will be a, quote unquote, easy fix. I will start my dream retail company. And this person who was my friend, would make a really great partner because Kathleen had been such a wonderful partner at Being Boss. Right. That I could do that again. I could replicate that and I wouldn't have to run the second business by myself. So I pitched it to her. She said, yes. And we started Almanac Supply Co.
Eman Ismail: Okay. What happened next? How did this turn into your mistake?
I think before this scenario, I really believed that anyone could be boss. I did. I had this, like I had this like hardcore belief that if I taught the tenants, you know, to anyone who was interested, anyone could show up and be an entrepreneur and build a business and do the thing.[00:28:00]
Emily Thompson: And I think what happened is she realized that either she was incapable or incapable in that period of her life, or just simply didn't want to anymore. But for me, it was, a fixing of that belief and a realization that, you know what, I actually think that the, the kinds of lives that we choose for ourselves as entrepreneurs and as business owners, maybe isn't for everybody.
And so, we launched Almanac in January of 2018. We started, you know, building our product line. We did some of our first shopping trips. We did our first, markets and pop-ups and we launched our website and like really launched it, I think very nicely. It was in spring of 2018 that the Being Boss book came out.
So I was looking ahead at several months of, of book touring and doing a lot of things. And so, you know, I told my, my partner, my [00:29:00] business partner, that I'm like, things are going to be kind of different for a couple of months as I, as I do this thing that I had been dreaming about writing a book for years. And there was never any conversations, never any hint whatsoever that like, you know, there was any discomfort or any sort of questioning of anything.
And I went, I went to New York city for book launch in April of 2018. And I came back for about two or three days before I went to San Francisco for another book launch event.
Out of nowhere during that like two or three days that I was back home between those trips, she sent me a Slack message saying that she quit.
How, how did you feel in that moment?
Emily Thompson: I was livid, so angry and, and mostly for very selfish reasons of just like, I am literally on the high of my life. Right. Like I just launched my book. I am book touring with my other business partner. I'm home for just a moment before I like jet set off to another and you're going to ruin my weekend.[00:30:00]
Eman Ismail: I get it. I so get it. I'm so with you, I'm it really I'm livid for you. You're just wanting to enjoy that weekend with your partner and your kids. And I ain't going to drop this on
Emily Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And now you're gonna drop this on me. And, and there was also a lot of other things like, you know, what did I do wrong? How did I miss this? Because there again, there was no conversations. There was no inklings, there was literally nothing. And it had actually even started before it was like an I quit. And it started with like a very tense message about, about something that I can't even remember. And I remember thinking, like, she's mad about something else. Right? Like, I don't remember the specifics at all. And then I remember replying to it of like, you know, like this isn't a big deal. We can deal with this later. Cause again, I'm very just like go with the flow. I'm totally, we'll figure things out when we get to it. And apparently she did not like my message, of just like, we'll figure it out. Like, but also not today. I just got back from New York City. I'm like leave for San Francisco in a couple of days. And she just, she quit.
Andso I was incredibly angry, also [00:31:00] questioning lots of things and also couldn't really do anything about it. So I remember replying back and being like, well, you know, I definitely, I remember saying something to the effect of like, I definitely would rather stay friends than business partners. So if you know, this is a choice that you make, you know, for whatever, like I respect it. I'm not going to be around for the next couple of days to come get this stuff, because actually all the entirety of our business was in her basement. I was like, so I'm going to have to get David to come deal. And David being my partner, David to, to come like, get the stuff while I'm away. And like, we can talk about it whenever we get back.
And then I left. And then I went to San Francisco. And I remember showing up in San Francisco and meeting Kathleen, my Being Boss business partner, and her being like, oh, you know, good to see you again after a couple of days. She's like, what happened. And I was like, let me tell you actually what just happened. And she was livid. And mostly because it didn't really make any good sense based on [00:32:00] what I knew and had experienced and the conversations that we had had. And it just also taught me so much about people in general and what it takes to be boss. And also just how maybe I'm not as good of a judge of people as I always thought I was.
Eman Ismail: Quick thing as an email expert, I've analyzed hundreds of emails and I see a lot of business owners making the same expensive mistakes in that email strategy. And copy. I want to help you stay away from those mistakes, which is why I've created the email rules, my free 35 minute email class that teaches you how to boost your conversions and sales through email without making any costly mistakes.
One business owner called says it's the best email class she's ever taken. Thank you. Bessemer. Want to get your. It's totally free. Head over to emancopyco.com/emailrules, or hit the link in the show notes and you'll [00:33:00] get instant access. Oh. And if you're not into writing your own emails and you'd rather me strategize and write your emails for you, get in touch.
Let's make it happen.
I hear you say that and that feels like a really sad realization. You know? And I'm sat here thinking you were close friends? Like use were, your lives were intertwined and only your close friends, your neighbors. So this is like
Emily Thompson: I will say she was no longer a neighbor at this point. She had like bought a house, so it wasn't that weird.
Can you
Eman Ismail: because I'm imagining exactly. That's what I was like. Trying to figure out how you saying hi to each other the next day.
Emily Thompson: Yeah, no, she, she had moved to another neighborhood by this point.
Eman Ismail: Okay. But you were close friends and so I imagine, well, it sounds like you didn't see it coming, and that was half of the issue. There was no indication of any problems. And so it shocked you at a time when your career was going amazingly. So what [00:34:00] happens after that? So she's just quit. You've gone back to finish your book tour, or to do a little bit more of your book tour. You come home, you pick up the stuff from, from her house. And then what happens with the business? What happens with Almanac Supply Co.?
Nothing for a minute. Nothing for a minute. I remember having everything in boxes in my office for a couple of weeks and we would get online orders and things, and we'd have to go rifling through these boxes to find the things that people had bought and send them out.
Emily Thompson: There wasn't anything I could do for a minute. I mean, we had, we had everything, you know, with us, we, We still had our website up, but we weren't doing markets. I mean, we had, we had very intentionally sort of pulled back on some opportunities because I was going to be traveling so much. And so it was pretty chill for a while. And then, and then I remember taking it out and sort of decorating my office with all the crystals and having the candles out and almost having like a little mini Almanac set up in my office at my house, in my home office.
And, [00:35:00] and it just kind of floated for a couple of weeks. It was also at this point and I absolutely see this as a contributing factor that I hit burnout. That my burnout began. It was just, it was maybe, maybe two, one to two months after, after my partner quit, that that burnout hit. And I, I know that it contributed, I think it was, you know, I think it was the book and the book touring. I think it was what we were doing at Being Boss. I think it was starting a new business. And then I think it was very much so punctuated or like, you know, sort of the last straw that my partner quit. And I now had the load of this other company on my shoulders. And so for awhile, we were pretty chill with it.
And then I don't remember at what point, maybe four-ish months later, I remember being in a place of like, okay, I have to decide if, if we're, if we're, if I'm going to do Almanac by myself or not, or what this is going to look like. And I remember having a conversation with David and it came [00:36:00] up that like, actually, David. Actually, you've kind of been shipping all the things anyway and otherwise like taking care of so much, like why don't we just like, officially do this together?
And it was one of those things that was like so obvious. And I was in burnout. Like if I had to do it by myself, the choice is gonna be no. And so in his was like, no, I love this. I love what we're doing. I love, you know, making candles and I love sourcing rocks and he looked God, more than anything he loves packing a box. It's his favorite thing on the planet packing a box.
And so he was really loving it. And so bringing him in saved Almanac. It saved it from a certain death because I would have killed it. And he breathed new life into it. And has really sort of made it his own in a way that he should have been the partner from the very beginning.
Eman Ismail: Oh, that gave me chills. I, I I'm a big believer in fate [00:37:00] and everything happening for a reason. And you saying that, just, just brings that to mind. Like it was always going to be David. It was always meant to be David.
Emily Thompson: It was, which is another reason why it's hard for me to think of that first partner, really being a mistake. I don't think David would've started the business with me. I think he would've thought of a million different reasons not to, and it never would've gotten off the ground.
I mean, that's just the kind of person David is. And I very much so love him for that. So I don't actually think it would have started with him. I think I needed someone else and I wouldn't have done it on my own. I don't think. So I needed a catalyst and she was that catalyst. She, she helped me get to a place to start it.
And then it's funny too. I've thought a million times along the way, like, aren't I so glad I'm not still running it with her. Like, 2020, you know, could you imagine
Eman Ismail: Wow. Is this.
Emily Thompson: Going through all of that with someone who, you know, wasn't as capable as me and me with David? So, [00:38:00] so, yeah, I think she needed to help me get it started and then I think she needed to go so that David could step in.
And if you ask it anyone like Almanac is David's, most people don't even know that I'm behind the scenes. Like anyone local, like Almanac belongs to David. And I just like show up to give him coffee sometimes.
Eman Ismail: So David owns 50% now, right? So you are equal partners.
Emily Thompson: Uh, not technically. Not technically. We're 49 51 so that we can technically still be woman owned.
Eman Ismail: Oh. I did not see that come in. Okay. So 49 51.
Now, your business partner, correct me if I'm wrong, left about four months into the business. So that for me, I don't know about you. That for me feels very premature to kind of, maybe panic about the way that a businesses is going, right?
So I, you didn't say it here, but I've heard you, I mean, I was following you at the time and I [00:39:00] was following the story.
And at the time you spoke about the fact that maybe this person didn't understand that, you know, businesses will fall into struggle sometimes and like, that's what being a, being a business owner is about. You just, you just, you gotta keep it moving, keep it going and, you know, fix the issue. Keep going.
Do you feel like maybe that, premature leaving was around maybe the expectation that success has to come quickly?
Emily Thompson: I honestly have no idea. I'm clueless. I can, I can make guesses all day long. We, we were having some difficulties with sourcing for our candles, which you haul in the grand. Like we're still having difficulties in sourcing for our candles. Like all that. Like there's constantly a different piece of the candle puzzle that we're having sourcing issues with.
If you know, last year was the jars, this year's, or this year, it's our craft, our craft toppers. Like next year, it will be the tins again, which was two years ago, whatever. So like there's always a [00:40:00] piece of it. And getting started, we were having a hard time finding candle jars for our glass candles. And yeah, four months, like that's normal and legit four years later, we're still having struggles with sourcing for our candles. So, you know, if she couldn't deal with it for months in, then she's not going to deal with it four years later.
If I had to, like, go with my gut. And again, this is not completely unfounded. This is based on some clues that I had sort of received along the way that afterwards I kind of put together almost like, oh, maybe. I think there was probably more of a desire to, to be more family centric than I think having a company was going to allow her to be.
Emily Thompson: And, or there was some conversations maybe within her family that were leading her to think that being a business owner was not a good path for what she wanted to do. And again, none of that is [00:41:00] completely founded just based on some clues that I gathered along the way. So.
Eman Ismail: Yeah.
Emily Thompson: Every business owner ever has had those exact same conversations of like, what is my work life balance? Am I going to be able to stay home with my kids enough? Am I going to be able to have another kid? Am I going to be able to go on like all those things? And I think that something came to a head or someone got in her ear, or I don't even know. I literally don't even know. But I, if I had to guess, it's probably based on those two things. It was probably harder than expected. Isn't it always. And two, a concern about work-life balance perhaps, had some sway. But also, I don't know, because we never spoke again.
Eman Ismail: Okay. Well, I do have that question written down here.
Emily Thompson: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: That question was coming. So thank you for answering that. That's a real shame. That's a real shame.
Let's move this onto something a little bit more positive. How did this mistake [00:42:00] make you?
Emily Thompson: I mean it made Almanac what it is. If she had not stepped out of the way, David could not have stepped in. And Almanac is Almanac. And I am what I am in terms of Almanac and like within my own relationship, because David is more or less, my 50 50 partner has give or take 1%, in the company. And we're able to share that experience so much more, which gives him even deeper understanding of what I go through at Being Boss in a way that I don't think he ever really connected with before of like just what it takes to show up and build a company and run a company and those sorts of things.
So, giving David, the ability to step in and to carry this load with me and to probably be more easily talked into doing what I want to do, because it's my vision and let's make it happen together, as opposed to like having to collaborate a little differently with someone who isn't already my life partner.
And then [00:43:00] also just some very important shifts of perspective for me came after this, both in terms of like, you know, Being Boss is actually an incredibly special thing that is not for everyone, which again, beforehand, I believe that anyone could do it. I really did. I believe that anyone could, anyone had the capacity.
But I don't think, I don't think that's necessarily true anymore. And also, as awful as it is sending me into burnout, it taught me things about myself that I never would have learned otherwise that makes me as efficient and effective and self-aware and all of the things that I am now that I would not take back for anything. Absolutely for anything.
Emily Thompson: So in many, many ways that moment, that Slack message, which like also, she wasn't a Slack communicator
Eman Ismail: Oh.
Emily Thompson: So just even though that's like being broke up via text message.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, no,
Emily Thompson: yeah, for sure.
Eman Ismail: I was thinking, [00:44:00] sorry that this was a thing like Slack was the thing between you.
is
Emily Thompson: I was, I was trying to get her on Slack. Like we were trying to make actually, you know what, now that I say that, I think that was, that may have even been the terse conversation we had before was she actually didn't like Slack. And it was like, but like, you know, we can't have lunch dates every day. I think we're going to need to have conversations.
Oh, that's interesting. I had forgotten that. That's what that was about. And so then she quit via Slack.
But anyways, so so many things came from that one Slack message. Most of them hurt to like hell, oh my God for a really long time. But now that I'm, you know, four years removed. Geesh. It's weirdly one of the best things that ever happened.
Eman Ismail: And I think that's what this podcast is about. And this is why I wanted to create it. I am really hard on myself when it comes to mistakes that I make in my personal life. To the point that I have been, I've been in therapy for a couple of years. And the [00:45:00] biggest, I guess, piece of advice that my therapist always gave me was you need to have more self-compassion. You need to be more forgiving to yourself.
And I actually ended up in, I think it's called self-compassion based therapy. Like that's how bad it got. But when it comes to business, I'm like, cool. I made a mistake. It's a, it's a lesson, it's not even a mistake. It's a lesson.
I've just got to keep going. Well, I've made him, I did something and I ain't going to do that again. And that's what I learned. That was not a good idea. I'm not going to do it again.It's been amazing for me to just see that in myself. Cause I didn't even know that I had that ability, but my personal life and business go in two very different ways when it comes to how I react around making mistakes. And so that's why I decided to create this podcast. And hearing you say that mistake was the best thing that's ever happened to you, really just solidifies the idea that there really are no such thing as mistakes. And I think it's really about how we choose to react as well.
Like how we [00:46:00] respond has so much say in what happens next. Whether it's going to be the biggest mistake of your life, whether there's going to be the worst thing that's ever happened to you in your life, or whether it's going to be the best thing that's ever happened in your life.
Emily Thompson: Yeah. Yeah, you absolutely get total say in that. And it is all of your reaction. And for a long time I probably would not have said that that was a good mistake to have happened. But definitely on this side of it, absolutely. And also just a high five for you having the ability to be so detached from your business decisions that in itself is quite a feat.
And I would say too that, similarly, I think at that point, I probably was still being a little too, a little too fragile when it came to some of those business decisions. That hardened me in a not awful way, to sort of release even more of that along the way. And, this is a parallel, but I don't know that I've drawn very often, but, or at least not publicly though. I definitely [00:47:00] have personally. That scenario is what allowed me to so easily and happily split from my Being Boss business partner. And it is through that previous experience that I was able to understand so much better how, how a business partnership split should have happened that Kathleen and I were able to split from Being Boss and still remain best friends.
Because I had that sort of awful scenario before of how not to communicate and how not to care and how, you know, not to show up as someone who wants to keep a friendship intact. I was able to navigate to the split with Kathleen, the business split with Kathleen, in a way that has equated to us being better friends now than we were when we were business partners.
Eman Ismail: Isn't that amazing. If you're listening and you have no idea what we're talking about, Emily had a business bestie, her business partner, Kathleen Shannon, who decided to leave the business. So Emily bought out Kathleen's [00:48:00] share of the business. And Emily now runs, what was their business together, by herself.
I wanted to ask you having both those experiences, because essentially the same thing happened on the surface, your business partner left. How is it do you think that you were able to create such a great, such a great business with one partner and the other one, you know, no matter what you did it, it just didn't work?
Emily Thompson: I mean, one is the quality of partner.
Eman Ismail: Gotta be, you gotta be.
Emily Thompson: I think. And, and that's that whenever I think about the mistake. Like what really was the nugget that like made this a bad choice? It was I chose the wrong person. Because I think there are the right people. And I think that she was not the right kind of person for me to start, especially this kind of business with.
And so there is a huge difference in just like [00:49:00] quality of person. And not to say that, you know, my previous Almanac partner was a bad person. I think, you know, she probably is an incredibly good person, just not the right person for something like business partnership or entrepreneurship or, or maybe even having the kind of very vulnerable and openly communicative relationship that is required to navigate a business breakup in the way that Kathleen and I did.
And so I think because Kathleen, you know, has so many more of the qualities that allowed us to have that breakup. And I was significantly more mature as well. And also just thinking about like the number of conversations Kathleen and I have had along the way that were like, how are you doing? But like, for real, like how are you feeling about this? But like for real. And really holding space for that complete and utter vulnerability for one of us to be able to openly say, you know what? It sucks [00:50:00] right now. I hate it. And so we're not glossing it over. We're not trying to make the other person feel good or, you know, like, or whatever. So I think one is like quality of person and two is just like navigation of the thing and that Kathleen and I were so openly communicative the entire way.
And just had the best of intentions for each other. We would literally start most of our business breakup conversations with like, my intention is for this to be great for you. And then she would say it back to me and we would then know that like, we have the best intentions for each other. And if it's for each other, it's also for ourselves, like it's going to come back in a way that I don't think I ever could have had that conversation in the same way with the previous Almanac partner.
So openly communicative, incredibly vulnerable, and also just the kind of person who is even ready for that kind of relationship.
Eman Ismail: It's interesting because even [00:51:00] from right at the beginning, when he was talking about taking your Almanac Supply Co business owner out for dinner, you mentioned it was, you know, a proposal. You propose this thing to her. And then again, here, we're talking about being ready for this relationship.
It feels like a business partnership is very close to, or has very similar qualities to a romantic partnership.
Emily Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. Kathleen still calls me her wife sometimes it's her ex-wife. And there's always makes for interesting introductions to like people who've never met me. She was like, this is my ex wife. And I'm like, not like that. Because it is, it is, it really, really is. And sure we're not like, you know, doing the dirty thing, but like we're sharing money in a way that most married people don't actually share and talk about money.
We are, we're having to be so open about our wants and our desires and you know, what it is that we want to be doing and not be doing in a way that most married people don't even have those conversations, that I think in most [00:52:00] ways it's probably more of a relationship then the way most people do married relationships. At least through my experience of just how it is that I've been able to have such an amazing business partnership with Kathleen. And now how my life partner is also my business partner. Like I'm definitely seeing through that lens so much. And, and honestly I've probably had closer relationships with my business partners than most people have with their significant others, their married partners.
Eman Ismail: I have to ask, because we've spoken a lot about some people just not having what it takes to be boss and not having the qualities needed for entrepreneurship. What would you say is the top quality that someone needs to be successful in business?
Emily Thompson: I think, I mean, this one comes with a dozen asterisks and caveats and like need for further definition. But the one that really pops into my brain is [00:53:00] ambition. And I think ambition has been made into a bit of a dirty word and like, it can be for sure, but I think there has to be this drive that is necessary for you to show up and do this work. I think it needs to be accompanied by, you know, compassion and care and great communication skills and like all of these other things. But I think you can have all of those things, but without the ambition, you're going to struggle with being a business owner.
Because that also like preps us to overcome all of the challenges.
Right. And all of the hiccups and all of the testing and changing and all of the things that are absolutely going to go wrong and all the mistakes that you're going to make along the way, like the ambition is what's gonna keep you on the path, even when everything else stands between you and the thing that you want.
Eman Ismail: It's great to hear you say that because I think so many of as business owners are so used to being told that we have too much ambition.
Emily Thompson: Yeah. Crap. That's crap, y'all.[00:54:00]
Eman Ismail: It's really great to hear you say about that. That is one of the things that's actually going to, you know, lead to our success.
Emily Thompson: Yeah. I mean, without it, you quit four months in.
Eh, right. Or, or like, or, you know, two years in, or whenever a client said something mean to you or, you know, whatever it may be. I think it is ambition that gives you a sense of not caring. Which is maybe part of the problem with the word ambition, but it does, it gives like a, you're not going to care what, what this person says about you or that this thing is hard because your ambition overcomes that.
And yeah, I think it has become a bad word. And I think for many fine reasons, it's become a bit of a bad word, but I think there is like this, this purity in ambition that is what makes some of the world turn to.
Eman Ismail: Thank you, Emily. Looking back. What did you learn and what do you want other people to learn from your [00:55:00] experience?
Emily Thompson: The thing that popped into my head is that someone else isn't going to fix you or your business. And I say that even as I like totally admitted that David came in and saved it. But I think whenever I started Almanac, I did not believe that I could do it on my own.
I wondered why you wanted a business partner. I was wondering why you didn't just go ahead and create the dream retail business by yourself?
Emily Thompson: Yeah. I mean, Kathleen and I were having a ton of fun. And I thought like, can I, I wanted to recreate that basically. I wanted to recreate that relationship and that sort of business success that was founded on that relationship by pulling someone else in and doing it again. And that was, there's not a silver bullet, definitely, for sure.
And then, you know, later on having David come in and do and do it, like it should have [00:56:00] always just been David, I think. If I had figured out a way to do it from the beginning, it probably would've been a similar situation, but with David. And then I look at Being Boss and how, what I'm doing there, like it now it is just mine and it's doing great things.
And so I've been sort of shown these sort of different sort of viewpoints along the way of what it looks like to, to rely on someone else to help you build the thing when it sort of has all circled back to not necessary, right. Being Boss is mine now, and I'm doing it just fine by myself. Thank you.
Right. And, and Almanac too this is, I don't want to say it's even just David's and not necessarily, but like, but it's funny. I feel like David and I are so close that we're actually just one person, right? Like life and business partners. But I think in the very beginning, I thought that bringing on a business partner would just sort of be a silver bullet to success. And it actually [00:57:00] stalled success. Period.
Eman Ismail: Emily, thank you so much for joining me. Can you tell the listeners where they can find you if they want to stay connected to you?
Emily Thompson: Absolutely. And this has been a treat for sure. If anyone does want to find me around the interwebs, you can find Being Boss at beingboss.club or @BeingBossClub on Instagram. You can find the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. The podcast is called Being Boss. And then we also have the Being Boss book, which is available, I think everywhere you buy books.
If you are interested in candles and crystals, which who isn't these days, you can find Almanac at almanacsupplyco.com or @AlmanacSupplyCo on Instagram.
Eman Ismail: And I just want to add that all of those things that you mentioned are amazing, the podcast is phenomenal. The book is right there. Can you see it, Emily?
Emily Thompson: Oh my God. I do see it. Yes!
Eman Ismail: The book is right there on my shelf. It [00:58:00] has pride of place. your community free community by the way is amazing. And Emily is one of the best community curators I have ever come across. It feels like a true community. So if you're interested in meeting some business owners, go ahead and find Being Boss community, because it's a wonderful place to be.
Thank you so much for being here, Emily. And I guess I'll see you in your community.
Emily Thompson: Indeed. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a fun chat, no longer scare cited. I'm glad I could share.
Eman Ismail: Talking to Emily reminded me of this.
When I was 16, after years of wanting to be a singer, I changed my mind.
I didn't want to be a singer anymore, but I still went to singing lessons because I loved to sing. One day, my vocal coach got really frustrated with my lack of commitment and said something I've never forgotten. Eman people who are much less talented than you [00:59:00] will get much further than you simply because they put in more effort.
That was probably the first time I understood that talent alone will never be enough to achieve anything. That's what I think of when I hear Emily talk about her realization that not everyone can be boss. Talent alone is not enough.
To be a successful business owner to survive in the business world. You need a particular set of skills and qualities. It's not just one thing. It's loads of things and not everyone has them. But like Emily said, if you have ambition and drive, you're off to a great stop. Because on those days that it gets really hard, you'll want to keep going.
There's no way I can have Emily Thompson on this podcast and not end the show with a famous motto, because at the end of the day, it all boils down to this.
Do the work, be boss.
[01:00:00] You're listening to Mistakes That Made Me, I'm Eman Ismail.
This is it, this is the end of season one of Mistakes That Made Me. You know, before I decide whether there's going to be a season two, I'm just gonna see how you like this podcast. So if you love it, let me know and leave a review so I know to get working on the second season.
Oh, and don't forget to subscribe so you get notified of any new episodes.
Thank you so much for listening and for sticking around. In case you were wondering, this podcast was scripted by me and produced by Zuri Berry from ZMC Podcasts. Thank you, Zuri. I think we make a fab team.
As for you, my lovely listener. I hope your relationship with making business mistakes has changed for the better, and I hope you are able to proudly embrace this podcast's mantra: mistakes made me because who would we be them?[01:01:00]