Episode #4: Getting Fired
Getting fired hurts.
But getting fired for the thing you’re actually an expert at is another level of pain.
My guest is Claire Pelletreau, conversion expert and host of the Get Paid Podcast.
In this episode, Claire shares the painful moment when she was fired for making a huge mistake in her job. She explains how being fired forced her to focus on the most important aspect of her job: the results. And how it’s that focus that propelled her to the tremendous success that came afterwards.
Listen to the Episode
Show notes
Links from this episode:
Claire Pelletreau on Instagram: @clairepells
Claire’s podcast: The Get Paid Podcast
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Eman Ismail: [00:00:00]
Fear. Fear was the reason that in 2018, I was interviewing for traditional nine to five jobs, even though I wanted to start my own business. But I had low self-esteem and little confidence that anyone would actually pay me to write. So I carried on scouring job boards until I found a communications role that sounded like it was meant for me. And it paid almost double what I was earning working for a local charity.
Within days of applying, I got an interview. I prepped so hard that I even memorized the organization's missions, values and goals. And I walked into that interview with an entire folder of writing samples. I was ready.
Now, the interview was divided into two parts. A question and answer style interview with three different department heads [00:01:00] and then a writing test. The first part went amazingly. I knew they were impressed. I was confident that if I just aced the test, the job would be mine. My income would be doubled. There'd be no more commute in between cities and I'd be able to pick up my son from nursery every day and read him a bedtime story every night. This job would change my life. All I had to do was ace this writing test.
I sat in front of that computer, trying not to cave into the pressure of knowing that this one test could change everything. And then I panicked. I wanted this job so badly that I started to overthink every question and couldn't even understand what I needed to do.
When I left the interview, I was trying not to cry. There was no doubt in my mind that I'd failed the writing test, even though I was a writer. After they formally rejected me and told me what I already knew about my performance, I [00:02:00] added the interviewers on LinkedIn because hashtag networking, one of them responded to my message.
Zuri: Hi, Eman. I don't know whether you requested any feedback. My view was that your interview was excellent, but your written exercise wasn't quite at the level we were looking for.
Eman Ismail: Ugh, the shame.
Four years later, I still feel embarrassment at the thought of those interviewers reading my LinkedIn posts, watching me grow my copywriting business. Part of me thinks they probably think I'm a complete fraud who knows nothing about her industry. There's nothing quite like failing in your own field.
That feeling of failing in the thing you're supposed to be great at is something Claire Pelletreau knows all about.
Claire Pelletreau: I was devastated, absolutely humiliated.
Not only that I had been fired, but that like, this was all based on [00:03:00] the one thing that I did in the business that like, nobody else was really doing. So it was horrifying.
Eman Ismail: On today's show, I'm speaking to Claire Pelletreau, Facebook, Instagram, and conversion optimization expert, and the host of the Get Paid podcast about how one mistake got her fired, but then freed her up to build the thriving business she has today.
Claire Pelletreau: The, the mistake maybe had been like brought to my attention on a Monday. And I think this was a Wednesday. And so I said the night Before this, I said to a friend, I wish she would just fire me because I'm never going to leave. But I never thought she would.
Eman Ismail: Welcome to Mistakes That Made Me, the podcast that asks extraordinary business owners to share their biggest business mistake so you know what not to do on your road to success. My name's Eman Ismail, and I'm an email strategist and [00:04:00] copywriter for online business owners and e-commerce brands. I'm a podcast lover, a pizza binger, a proud mama of two, and I have this radical idea that if maybe us business owners were a little less guarded and a lot more open about the mistakes we've made, we could help each other grow a business that brings us more joy and less regret.
Hey Claire. Thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing?
Claire Pelletreau: I'm doing great. I am so excited. One to be here as a guest, but two to actually hear your podcast. I have been waiting for a long time and I'm just so excited that the wait is almost over.
Eman Ismail: It's almost over. The number of people who are like, can't wait to hear your podcast, or like, give me something, give me some details. I'm like, not yet. Not yet. So as a recording, not very many people know even like the name, the theme, what it's about what's happening. So yeah, I'm super excited to get this out in the world, for you to listen to it and all the guests to listen. [00:05:00]
Claire Pelletreau: Oh, yeah, it's going to be great.
Eman Ismail: It is, thank you so much for being here. Well tell us a bit about who you are and what you do.
Claire Pelletreau: Sure. So I am known for teaching people how to run Facebook and Instagram ads without tearing your hair out in the process. I have been doing this for about eight years and now like, just as the natural progression of my work, we've also expanded. We, I say me and my very small team, we've expanded to helping people with like conversion optimization in general because just putting out the ad is really only at the beginning, then there's everything that happens once someone interacts with your ad takes the next step with you. There's a long path before somebody becomes a buyer. So, we want to shorten that path for people and really help them like build relationships with these new subscribers and these people that they're coming from ads so that they are likely to buy soon.
Eman Ismail: And this [00:06:00] is a change of direction for you, right? This is, and this is quite recent. So we're talking about the Get Paid mastermind here, and it's still all very new. So what made you kind of change the direction and start mentoring and coaching people in that way?
Claire Pelletreau: Sure. So, in the beginning of 2021, I launched a program called the Lead Lab and the Lead Lab was just Facebook ad focused. Facebook ad, plus like a very, very brief funnel, just in an attempt to basically get paid to grow your list, right. And make some, or all of your ad spend back from your new subscribers. Getting them to buy like a small product.
And it was like almost everyone in the program needed help beyond that, because we worked on their signup page. We worked on the sales page for their, just, you know, for their small product. We looked at their emails and things. But everything really needed to go beyond that. We needed to really work on [00:07:00] the, their launches, their messaging in their launches, their emails, the frequency of emails. The why don't you get to the point and actually ask for the sale part of the emails, what we kept seeing is that people just, there was so much trepidation around really saying, hey, here is the value of what I offer and here's why you should get in now. And without that, it doesn't matter how cheap your Facebook ad leads are.
If you can't turn them into buyers in a launch, if you can't get them on a webinar, if you can't get them to book calls with you, if that's what you do, you know, one-on-one work, things like that. So, also in 2021, there were big changes with Facebook ads. I mean, it's like there have been changes every year since I got into this business, but the biggest change was iOS 14 made it so that tracking became a huge problem. Types of ads that had gotten very popular, which was like just ads for these [00:08:00] really low price products, they stopped working almost overnight.
Oh, and the other thing was the whistleblower of last year. I just kept getting on these calls with my students and giving them the worst news. Like this is Facebook. This is the landscape of Facebook ads now. The evergreen funnel that you paid $10,000 to learn how to set up, it might break even with ads and you're in good shape if it does. But like, it's not going to get you the 20 K months just from ads that you were hoping for.
Claire Pelletreau: So I was giving this bad news, but I can't hold back them on like, you know, me, this is just like, you know, straight as an arrow. So, I mean, I stopped selling. I stopped selling the Lead Lab, even though it was an evergreen program because I hated just giving people this terrible news all the time.
And so when I took a look around that, like, well, what else could I do? [00:09:00] If it, if it's not all Facebook ad focused, what could it be? And that's where I saw the need for, you know, people wanted, they wanted more eyeballs on their work, but they also didn't understand what it would take to then convert them.
And so this is where we decided to, okay, we're going to stop enrolling the Lead Lab. We're going to switch over to get paid marketing, which we launched as Get Paid mastermind. We have since like tweaked the name. And that has been like a really interesting experience. It is a higher price. It brings in a different kind of business owner. And we're seeing a lot of success for the people who are in it, which feels so much better than constantly giving terrible news.
Eman Ismail: I love how honest you are with yourself. And I love the fact that you actually just stopped and thought, well, what can I change? I'm not happy with what's happening. What can I do about it?
[00:10:00] I want to move onto your podcast because you have an amazing podcast called the Get Paid Podcast, on which I was a guest on episode 159. I would love to know how it came about. How did it start for you? Because you focus on asking anyone who's on your show, and you have some big names on your show, how they get paid, which I imagine is slightly terrifying. Sometimes. Like what? Talking like a Rachel Rogers, who I know you're quite friendly with actually. So maybe it's not so terrifying, but that would terrify me.
I can't even, I can't even think of all the other big names that you've had on, but you've had loads of people on there. So tell me how it came about and how you came up with that theme.
Claire Pelletreau: Well, it's funny because, just before people go, like looking in the archives for an episode with like Marie Forleo or Amy Porterfield, you're not going to find those. Because I don't, I have specifically [00:11:00] not tried to ask the kind of celebrity entrepreneurs to be on the show because, and this is just an assumption of mine, that they won't share in the way that I want them to share, you know, like how much do you pay yourself?
And I get that when you are at a certain, even just like take home pay level, it can be dangerous. It can actually be dangerous to tell people like how much you pay yourself. So I get it.
So the podcast came about because when I was just like starting out in, in my, in my business, which is the same business that I have now, I've always done Facebook and Instagram ads. Well, at the beginning it was just Facebook. And I had a wedding to pay for. My husband was like mostly covering our bills and things. And I just, I was like searching for how to get clients. And I would find these blog posts, but nothing was really actionable. Right. And I [00:12:00] just was like, I just need somebody to start the pay your rent podcast. Like literally how to pay your rent. Right. Because I was renting at the time.
Claire Pelletreau: And, at the same time, this was like the rise of the Facebook ads that talked about making six figures. I started my business in 2014, but this must have been around 2015, where you see all these ads that are about, you know, how to make six figures in six minutes or blah, blah, blah. And I was just so curious about what the business model was that allowed someone to make a hundred thousand dollars, because what I was doing was maybe making me two or $3,000 a month, and then maybe I like my very first launch, I made $5,000, but that is all a very long way off from a hundred thousand dollars. So I wanted to know how many people do you have to have on your list for this? How much are the things that you're selling? What is the delivery? What does the delivery look like? If you, if you're [00:13:00] selling a $2,000 offer, what do people get?
Mostly because I just wanted ideas for myself. And so in June 2015, I launched this podcast. I went to a conference in May and I was telling some people that I met, who became really good friends, you know this is what I'm thinking of. They loved it. So some of them offered to come on the show. Couple other people who have been clients of mine who liked the idea. I just reached out to them and, and from the very beginning, I was like, so how much money do you make? And how do you do it? What is the offer? What's the list size? What are your expenses? How much are you spending on ads? And instead of the pay your rent podcast, I did decide to go with the Get Paid podcast because I just kept asking, how do you get paid?
Eman Ismail: I love it. And the fact that you just go so deeply into not just how people get paid, but also how much of that money, they actually take home. Like that's huge. And it, it opened my eyes [00:14:00] up to a lot of things as well. And what you mentioned about it potentially just being dangerous for, like, huge names and like celebrity entrepreneurs to disclose their figures, that never occurred to me until you had Rachel Rogers on the show, and then you were like, so how much do you make? And then she was like, yeah, I can't even say, cause it's just like silly figures now and I'm worried about my safety. I have to be serious.
I was like, well, what, firstly, Rachel Rodgers is making the money. Secondly. Wow. And that actually made me think like, clearly I'm not on the Rachel Rogers level, but it does make me think a little more carefully about how much I share because um, I am quite open and transparent because I think it's helpful to be. But then also that made me think, okay, maybe you shouldn't be so transparent all the time. Uh, So yeah, there is a bit of just give and take and uh, considering. Cause there are things I've never considered before.
Claire Pelletreau: [00:15:00] Yeah, I have, I heard Nick from side hustle pro, which is a great show. She once said like, where I come from you don't talk about how much you make. And I have been I have been pitching her to be on the show and it will happen eventually. But I had to go in with the pitch saying, listen, I know that this is a hard line for you and I will not cross it.
There were some people who have agreed to come on the show, but not disclose even how much revenue they make. And I typically make them explain why. Um, And there have been, you know, like a variety of reasons, but a guest on my show was also like, listen, we have family. I want to say it was Guatemala. We have family in Guatemala. It is not safe for me to talk about how much I make publicly. And it was like, oh well, me and my privilege over here, just like constantly talking about numbers. Um, So yeah, it's just, it's, it's great for people who it's great when somebody is able to share [00:16:00] those numbers, because I think it has really been eyeopening for people. And I also respect those who are not willing to do it.
Eman Ismail: Well, I'll tell you that it was always has been really hard for me to kind of talk about numbers and I do it despite it feeling hard and having that resistance because I think it's, I think it's important for me to.
I would have loved when I was starting out to have seen someone who looked like me talking about what is possible. um, But there's a huge part of me that doesn't like to talk about it because first of all, from, Oh, my God, there are just so many different aspects, like elements to this, but the first one is almost shame. Shame about making money. I'm still grappling with that. And there's always been, especially because I came out of the charity sector to start my own business.
Leaving the charity sector, that was a conversation. Let me not mention any names, but there was a conversation about it being um, money related. Like me leaving this actor because of [00:17:00] money. And I'm like, you damn right it's because of money. First of all, it was because of um, my son, I've just not been able to see him as much as I wanted to with the job that I had at the time. And secondly, you're damn right it's because of money. I'm not being paid what I think I should be being paid. And I can't live like this. I need to go make more money for me, for my family as well.
And so I've always felt like,There is no shame in wanting to make more money. And I think that's something as well, like the idea that the shame in wanting money, because that makes you greedy. And that makes you, you know, worldly coming from a faith background that makes you worldly. You're too. You want too much of this world, right?
So it was, it was a lot, but I will say that a lot of people messaging me after my interview with you and were grateful that I opened up and talked about numbers and it was also just a great opportunity for me, because since then off the top of my head, I know I got a [00:18:00] client from that podcast episode. I don't know if I ever told you this, I got a client, I got under the podcast interview, and I just got invited to speak at an international conference as well.
Claire Pelletreau: So yes. Thank you It was well with.Oh, that means a lot.
Eman Ismail: Okay. Well, let's move on to why you're here. I'm super excited to, to talk to you about this.
Claire, what is the mistake that made you?
Claire Pelletreau: Well, I made a pretty massive mistake with my boss's Facebook ad campaigns, which got me fired.
Eman Ismail: Okay, let's go backwards. Tell us a little bit about the job that you were in the role that you were in, and, and, and how it got to that point.
Claire Pelletreau: So I was hired in 2013 by Laura Roeder. Laura wrote her. Is the co-founder of B-School,
She had her own info [00:19:00] product business, and then she eventually launched Meet Edgar, the social media marketing tool. She has since sold that and now does a different tech tool called, But I was hired in 2013 when Laura had stepped away from B-School and was now just focusing a hundred percent in her own info product business.
So she hired me to write for the blog to do analytic stuff and to run their Facebook ads. And this was like my introduction to the world of online business. I had previously been in the startup scene with my husband, my then boyfriend now husband startup. And so like, I didn't know that you could be a business owner if you weren't a developer. Or I didn't know, you could be a business owner online if you weren't a coder that could build an app, you know.
So I joined Laura's team a year in, I get an incredible performance review. Really, really good. And [00:20:00] one month later, Laura has discovered that I have been pouring money into an ad campaign that was getting us the best cost per signup cost per like free, you know, email subscriber. Right. But that it was not converting to the people who were like taking the dollar trial of the membership at the time. There was another campaign that was doing that at a higher rate.
At the time, I mean, like here's me trying to put a little bit, trying to take some of the responsibility off me, even though I really take most of it at the time being able to track that was very difficult, but it was doable.
It was possible. And I had missed it. And here she was about to transition the business to a SAAS business model. And she sees that her like one data person-- and that was the one area in my performance review that it was like, okay, we do need you to keep getting [00:21:00] stronger in this areas. Like, you know, we're collecting the data, but we're not really analyze. Like, we're not doing anything with it.
So actually at the time I'm literally talking to a data analysis guy who can come in and kind of like help me figure out tracking a lot better. But she realizes just based on this one, this is like literally one Facebook ad mistake, that I am not the right person to sit at the head of marketing in her new company. Because SAS software as a service, it's all about data. It's all about those numbers and it just wasn't my strong suit.
And so she pointed that out. And then I think I tried to fix the mistake somehow and just literally the one thing I proposed to her made her see like, okay, this is, this doesn't actually make sense. Her solution doesn't make sense, or it's not the one that, that she would take. And so she was like, I'm sorry, I have to let you go.
Eman Ismail: Oh, no. [00:22:00] How did that conversation go?
Claire Pelletreau: Well, actually, it's funny because she didn't say I have to let you go. It drew out to a point where I was like, okay, so can you just tell me if this is it because it's, she didn't want, she clearly did not want to say the words or to make the decision, but she had, you know, she had, she knew that this is what she needed to do.
And so I think the next day was my last day. And I just like maybe finished up whatever I was working on. And, you know, I got off that call and I, I think I was already in tears, but I absolutely sobbed hysterically. I called my boyfriend. I called my mom. I did send one great email, which was to the massage therapist that I've been trying to book with because at the time I was dealing with, like, terrible back pain, terrible muscle. I don't even know the word in English. At the time we were living in Argentina, sorry, I don't think I mentioned that. But I was like, hey, [00:23:00] my schedule just opened up. So I was able to get a massage pretty quickly, but otherwise I was devastated, absolutely humiliated.
Claire Pelletreau: Not only that I had been fired, but that like, this was all based on the one thing that I did in the business that like, nobody else was really doing. So it was horrifying.
Eman Ismail: Had you ever been fired before?
Claire Pelletreau: Nope. I, I thought there was a certain kind of person who got fired andthat's certainly not me.
Eman Ismail: I feel like that happened pretty fast, to go from having a great performance review to one month later being fired. That must have felt a bit like a whirlwind.
Claire Pelletreau: Yeah. Yeah. I have since learned about things like performance enhancement plans, you know, my husband is also an entrepreneur and I know that there was one guy that they gave chance after chance to, and eventually he was let go, but [00:24:00] that wasn't the same as actually at one of the performance enhancement plans. They're much more measurable. Right?
But there was none of that, but am I in like, I just came up on like the eight year anniversary of that actually. and in January of that same year, so, you know, for four and a half months prior, I had finally launched my blog about Facebook ads, an opt-in about Facebook ads. And I started guest posting doing YouTube videos.
Claire Pelletreau: So I had already started this business on the side and I literally told a friend of mine. It's not like this one call was when the mistake was brought up the call. The, the mistake maybe had been like brought to my attention on a Monday. And I think this was a Wednesday. And so I said the night before this, I said to a friend, I wish she would just fire me because I'm never going to leave, but I never thought she would.[00:25:00]
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Let's make it happen.
Okay. So you have just been fired and it sounds like, well, you just said, you thought certain type of person gets fired and not, it's not me. [00:26:00] So this is a huge shock. I, and you are working under someone who is gaining popularity at this point. Was she, was she the name that she
Claire Pelletreau: She was bigger than she is now because she has stepped back from being the PR she's. She hasn't been the personal brand since pretty much when I was working with her.
Very smart, very smart. She didn't want to be the personal brand anymore. So she built two companies that allowed her to run companies without having to be the face of the marketing.
Eman Ismail: So, how did you feel once you'd been fired, seeing her continue on? Like, like what would go through your mind when you would see her name pop up in places?
Claire Pelletreau: You know, it's funny, any podcast episode that somebody came out with that had her as a guest on it, I would listen to because she, she has a phenomenal brain. You know, I used to, when I would find myself like afraid to do something or [00:27:00] resistance, I would literally ask myself what would Laura Roeder do?
Because she, she had, she was younger than me, and like incredibly successful. And I just, knew that there was so much, that I did learn from her and that I could have continued to learn. The worst thing I think was that I felt like I couldn't reach out to, or even be introduced to any of her contemporaries, any of her peers, because it would be like, oh yeah, this is the person that Laura Roader fired.
And guess what, if I had just sent, if I had sent 10 cold emails that month, I probably would have replaced full-time income in a month, because this was a time when people were really just kind of discovering Facebook ads. She was, she was quite the, like, you know, early adapter already having been using them for a few years. But I [00:28:00] could have, I could have gotten so many, so many clients so quickly and they wouldn't have cared. They would not have cared like why I was let go. But to me it felt like the fact that it was so related to a Facebook ad w like mistakes, how could I possibly, how could I possibly reach out to anyone? So I didn't.
Eman Ismail: Well, not long after you built a whole business on the same thing. So how do you get over that? How did you go from I can't even show my face in front of these people to actually, this is what I'm good at and I'm going to continue on doing it?
Claire Pelletreau: Well, one I learned, like such an important lesson about cost per lead versus cost per acquisition. That like, I was just never going to make that mistake again. And then just like literally making YouTube videos where I'm talking about this with a modicum of confidence, at the [00:29:00] time that was enough.
People would just be like, oh, she's the one let's go. She knows what she's talking about. Because again, there were just, there was a lot of mystery around Facebook ads and I was somebody who had experience and was like clearly capable just by the way I was able to communicate. So just like doing that and showing up as the authority in this thing, despite the fact that, you know, I didn't really want to say where I had just come from or what had happened or how, like, I didn't want to tell the story of how my business started in the beginning.
And eventually that just kind of like overshadowed, like nobody cared. Nobody asked where I had come from, until finally people like want to know it's like the story. And so then I would start telling the story, but without naming her, naming the company and just by saying like, Hey, I made this mistake and I could also spin it.
Claire Pelletreau: I could spin it because she was adjusting her business model. And so I think for awhile, I said laid off instead of fired [00:30:00] with cause. You know, so yeah, that's what I did. That's what I did.
Eman Ismail: Okay. We've talked about the mistake, which was getting fired. How did this mistake make you?
Claire Pelletreau: Well, I think it really comes down to what I just brought up, which is this, this focus since then on the metric that I wasn't paying attention to when I was running Laura's campaigns versus the one that like everyone in their mother thinks is the important one.
That's the one I was focusing on, too, the cost per subscriber. And everyone just constantly harps on like, oh, well, you know, my cost per webinar signup is this. Or my cost per lead is that, or how come my friends getting 50 cent leads and so-and-so is getting. But I, from, from that time, I have made my people, the people who learn from me, I have made them focus on cost per acquisition and, like, [00:31:00] ROAS. Return on ad spend.
Because if you sell a $50 product, you better be getting 50 cent leads because that might be the only way you can break even. But if you're selling a five, six, $10,000 thing, you should be paying for $20 leads left, right, and center so long as you know how to sell them.
You know, I would say Eman that I've done a bad job at showing off the results that like my people have gotten, usually because I hear about it years later. 30 days after somebody buys my ads course, they're not usually reporting a 5X return on ad spend because a lot of those people need the funnel, they need the messaging help, they need other things. Brooke Castillo kind of changed that. I think for me.
Eman Ismail: Oh, tell me about Brooke Castillo.
Claire Pelletreau: Yeah. So she came on my show in April, I [00:32:00] think 2019. And she basically told the world how amazing I am. And I didn't really know that she liked me like that. The funny thing is I had run her ads like through a team. She w I was part of a big team that took on her ads at one point, but I didn't have direct contact with her.
And so I didn't, I didn't know how she felt about me. So she comes on the show, she talks about how great I am about how my Facebook ad course was like the thing that changed everything for her. And then she also dropped someone like about $17 million revenue, which since then is like laughably small for her.
But that was the height at the time. That made that episode basically go viral. So I had a big lift in sales after that because people are passing around this episode. And then it was like, oh wait, I've been meaning to get Facebook ad [00:33:00] help. I'm going to go to whoever Brooke loves. And it was me.
Eman Ismail: Wow. And I've actually listened to that episode and it was another really great interview. And as well as doing work for Brooke Castillo, you've also worked with Jasmine Star, who I am like I fan girl Jasmine Star so
Claire Pelletreau: Me too. Me too.
Eman Ismail: It's it's amazing. So, so that changed a lot for you. I'm I'm guessing that brought in a lot of, lot of clients, a lot of customers, a lot of, clout?
Claire Pelletreau: You know, it's funny because when Jasmine became my client and she was fine with me telling people that, that gave me more confidence as well. Because when you can talk about your clients ROI, and I never yelling really shared numbers, but I would, I remember doing a screenshot of her ad account and like looking at it, this is the return on ad spend and it's, which is just like a percentage, right?
It's not actual revenue, you know, it was, it was fantastic. The funny thing [00:34:00] about that is Jasmine found me from my blog. She reached out. This was 2017 when I like had a baby in 2016 and took a very long maternity leave and came back and Facebook ads were very different and I felt like a total fraud.
And so she, this is not the first time this happens. She finds me and I send her to my friend, Tony, who was, is still, he has a very successful ad agency. And I said like, okay, well maybe at the time I'm like moonlighting for Tony's agency as a subcontractor because I get to play in the ads manager with big, big spends, but I don't have the pressure of the actual client.
So we do a call with her and we are hired. I am on the team and not like I'm getting paid pennies, but compared to [00:35:00] like, this was a big client for, for my friend, a big moneymaker and I was, there were some special deals there so that I would get a percentage of things because it was such a big client, but he basically let me talk about her if she was my direct client.
And I think it was because, I mean, I'm not sure really why he never said anything about that. Maybe it was just because we have such a great relationship, but maybe it was because. I was on, I brought in the account. I don't know, but it gave me a lot of confidence. I could use her as a case study. She's on my website.
I've had issues with confidence, so many issues with confidence, that little things like that were really important for me.
Eman Ismail: That's amazing. And I think it's, it's interesting because as soon as you said, Jasmine Star came to me and I pass it onto someone else, the first thought I had was, oh my gosh, Jasmine's doc Anthony, you pass it onto someone else. That's surprising. And then I thought, yeah, no that's not surprising at all, because I think I would have the urge to do [00:36:00] something like that as well.
I can only imagine, especially having just come off maternity leave and just knowing how rusty you feel, how your confidence at that point is an all-time low. Can you imagine Jasmine Star popping into your inbox? Yeah, I think I'd be sending, I would've sent it elsewhere as
Claire Pelletreau: who she was. I didn't know that she was a big deal at all.
Eman Ismail: My gosh.
Claire Pelletreau: So for me, it was just, you know, I remember somebody coming into my inbox, somebody who was a big deal for me and me and Tony getting ready for the sales call and getting the email that day. Listen, we've decided to go with somebody else before we even got a chance.
So I remember that and I, you know, somebody who I respected so greatly, and I couldn't believe that, you know, their person had reached out to me. But I didn't know Jasmine. So it was just like, I can't, I can't, I can't come up with like another PR I don't know how to price my services once again, Tony. So you, you handled that and I'll be like the little brain child [00:37:00] it. It was a good partnership.
You know, this reminds me of what happened to me very recently. So while I was on maternity leave, I put up a wait list and, I had some, you know, names coming through and whatever else and I check and read every so often. Here in, well in the UK, the equivalent of Shark Tank is Dragon's Den. Right? So when I came back off maternity leave, I was looking through my waitlist. And there was a name that sounded really familiar. And I was like, why does this person sound so familiar? And it was her product as well. That sounded super familiar. So I went on her website and realized I'd been watching her on TV, on Dragon's Den, which is basically Shark Tank. Just like two weeks before I, I was like, oh,
Eman Ismail: no, no, no. So much time had passed from when she'd sent an inquiry. And to be honest, I wouldn't have said yes anyway, cause I was in the throws of having a baby. But it was just, it was super. It was, it was, it was a sad moment. [00:38:00] But I got in touch with her and she was like, you know, the priorities have changed slightly now because she was so busy after the, she got the investment. And so she's super busy, yeah, with everything that came after the show. And she was like, let me get back to you soon. So she's on my follow-up list.
But it's, it's the idea of, yeah. Coming back from maternity leave and having, you know, great people coming into your inbox and dealing with all that, all that kind of stuff that comes up.
So what I'm hearing is you made this terrible mistake. That was, you know, data related. I know you now, and I know that data is your strength. So how this made you, was it made you got really good, really good at data. Really good at what you do. Is that right?
Claire Pelletreau: It made me very good at these handful of data points. Like if you, if you were to bring me into, you know, let's say ConvertKit calls me up and they're like, okay, here's our churn and here's [00:39:00] our LTV. And here's the. Ah, but if it's like, here's our ROAS on the ad spend, here's our cost per acquisition, here's our lifetime value from that. I'd be like, okay, dokey, let's go. Because yeah. Now I am now that, that is like my biggest focus and, and Facebook has made it harder. It made it harder to track all of that, but, I mean, this just makes me like want to brag, but all of the stuff that you have to do now in order to track ad results from Facebook ads, I've been doing with my clients since like 2016, because I never wanted, I never wanted like that vague, did they come from an ad or didn't they. So I didn't really have to update anything. I just, it is still hard to get clients to do what I'm asking them to do. Cause that's more work.
Eman Ismail: Yeah. I've heard you talk a lot about you wanting [00:40:00] to be a ballet dancer growing up and, and then going into acting. And one of the things I've heard you say is that that world made it very difficult for you to deal with rejection. And that really stood out to me because. I, my entire life wanted to go into acting too. I did a lot of acting. And so that whole, like, auditioning, not getting the part over and over again, really resonates with me and makes me feel some kind of way when it comes to rejection. So I wondered how that plays into your business today and also how it played into you bouncing back from, you know, being fired.
Claire Pelletreau: Oh, well, it took me a really long time to bounce back. A really long time. I mean, it was not fast. I mean, I, I would get like these handful of clients that really weren't a very good fit. I wouldn't say I bounced. I kind of like [00:41:00] crawled out of that pit of despair, like bit by bit by bit. And then I would have like a, a little win, like my first launch of my course. And then I would make $5,000 and blow all of it as if it didn't like, if it wasn't all my revenue for several months.
But in terms of like rejection now, you know, I still shy away from it. I still shy away from putting myself out there, which I ought to. You know, I really, I ought to go pitch myself on bigger podcasts. I ought to pitch myself to speak at conferences. And there's an element of me now that it's just like, I can't be bothered. You know, like I would actually rather go the very it's pretty low cost and also no stress method of like growing my podcast with ads then by [00:42:00] going and trying to get on these big name podcasts and like, oh, what am I going to, you know, what's the pitch going to be?
Claire Pelletreau: Yeah, but I, I definitely hold myself back in ways. I'm not sure I've gotten over that, is really the answer.
Eman Ismail: Yeah. Well, I do want to add that you said you can't be bothered, but there's a whole other side to this. where you also have a family, you have two kids and a husband, so you have a lot going on.
Eman Ismail: Can I just say that you've changed my life. Let me tell you how. You're so open about the support that you get with your family and your kids. So you have a cleaner, you openly, whenever you talk about your kids, you always say, my kids are in daycare or school.
You have said you have family close by you've set up like support systems to help you. And also you talk a lot about going out with your husband a lot and, and, and getting a babysitter. I had this thing where I could not allow myself to hire a babysitter. I don't know why I thought the babysit was going to do to my [00:43:00] kids. But I couldn't do it.
Then I heard you talking about just how life-changing it is. And I actually went out and got a babysitter. So I've done this like a few times now, and I feel like a different person. There was one point where I thought I was losing my mind a little bit, and I now feel like a different person just having a few hours a week to myself has changed everything.
So thank you fibia and so open about the support systems you've created. You mentioned at the beginning. That when you first started your business, you were making like two to three K a month. Do you mind sharing how much you're making now? I, I pull out of the business $6,000 that goes into our family, like that's and then a thousand for my retirement. And then. It's been only 1500 into my own like money, but it [00:44:00] had been up to nine. Excuse me. It had been up to three. So about 10 K between eight and 10K is really what I'm paying myself.
Claire Pelletreau: And that is after taxes. So all that take home pay is, you know, it usually equals out because I might take a big chunk here or there. It usually equals about a hundred thousand after taxes. Excuse me. Yeah. After taxes this year, it will be more because I took out a big chunk to pay for this new house that we're closing on on Friday.
So, so this will be a year where I definitely pay myself more. But that also means I just have less, less savings now in the bank.
Eman Ismail: I mean, it's pretty amazing to me to, Hey, you say that having just heard you say. About Laura, when you were working under Laura? I wish she would just fire me because it sounds like firing you was the best thing she could've done for you.
Claire Pelletreau: Oh, my God, it was, I never would have left that job. It [00:45:00] was such a great job. It was completely remote. It was flexible. The team was amazing. None of those, this like toxic bullshit. I've never known the toxic corporate non-corporate anything. it was a dream job and I never would have left. So thank you, Laura.
She gets a message from me every year or so where I wait, just say that exactly thing. So she doesn't need to hear it again.
Eman Ismail: Well, I was gonna, I was just going to ask you, have you spoken to her since, or have you spoken about the firing since?
Claire Pelletreau: Oh, yeah, just on the actual anniversary of it. I posted on Instagram that it was the anniversary and his story, and I tagged her really small, you know, really small. And she wrote back right away. This made my day. Thank you so much. It was so hard to do, because I think I said like, something like you don't congratulating her on doing a, I'm making a hard ass decision. You know, firing somebody who is pretty good, but [00:46:00] not great. And somebody who you like, and you get along with, and, you know, like having to worry about being thought of as like a bitch, you know. I mean, really, you got to listen to her podcast episodes on other. She doesn't have a show. I'm just saying on other people's Laura Roeder, R O E D E R.
She's got a great brain,
Eman Ismail: I will actually, she came up on my. You know, apple podcast thing recently, because she did an interview with Nathan barrier convert kit, uh, Barry, sorry, Nathan barrierkit, um, for his podcast, a really good podcast. And yeah, I immediately thought of you and was like, ah, I'm going to have to listen to this episode cause I've never heard her speak.
Claire Pelletreau: God, I might have to find something and send to you. Just like some of my favorites.
Eman Ismail: do, please do, have you ever fired anyone?
Claire Pelletreau: Yes.
Eman Ismail: Oh. How did that go?
It was really hard. It was really hard [00:47:00] and it was kind of mutual, but kind of not. We knew each other for a really long time, so that was hard.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, that's hard.
Yeah, that sounds it. Okay. What did you learn from all of this and what do you want others to learn from your experience?
Claire Pelletreau: Nobody is paying attention. Nobody cares that you were fired or that you made a mistake. Everybody, if you are showing your value, showing what, you know, showing your authority, showing that you are skilled, that is what people are paying attention to. And if they continue to pay attention to you, it's because of that, it's certainly not because of like the mistakes in your past.
So it's so hard in the moment. Anything humiliating, any kind of mistake, it's so hard, [00:48:00] but nobody's paying attention.
Eman Ismail: Thank you. Thank you so much for being here, Claire. And, and for talking about this, it's also been amazing to watch how. How much, you just own the story. How, when you talk about it now, there is no shame and there is no humiliation. And I love the way that you've just taken control of it. It's inspiring
Claire Pelletreau: it wasn't always that way. That's all. I'll say it. Wasn't always that way.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, I can imagine that that took a lot of work I can imagine, but I think. I mean, I'm on your newsletter. So I got the email while you were talking about the anniversary and just hearing you share the story like that, it, it makes us on the other side feel like it's okay to make mistakes. And also it's okay to share your mistakes. It humanizes you and, you know, people want to hear about your lows as well as your highs, hence this podcast as [00:49:00] well, because I really, I really do believe that mistakes are just lessons to be learned and that's it.
Claire Pelletreau: yeah,
Eman Ismail: So where can people find you if they want to stay connected?
Claire Pelletreau: The best place is going to be over on the podcast. If you search "Get Paid Claire," that's going to be the easiest way to find the get pay podcast on whatever your podcast app is. I am very rarely on again, off again with Instagram, so I wouldn't even bother there, but then you could also come over to my site, ClairePells.com, especially if you're interested in Facebook ad Instagram ad stuff.
Eman Ismail: Thank you so much, Claire. It's been absolutely amazing talking to you and I am so grateful that you said yes to being here.
Claire Pelletreau: Oh, I, I feel honored that you asked, thank you so much.
Eman Ismail: For me, the standout moment of this conversation was when Claire admitted, I never would've left that job. If Laura Roda had not fired Claire, [00:50:00] Claire would probably still be working for her today. It just goes to show that sometimes we need a little push or shove to help us do the things we're too afraid to.
It makes me want to ask you, how is fear of failure, discomfort, and risk holding you back in your business? At the very heart of Claire's story is the reason I started this podcast in the first place. Sometimes your biggest blessing comes in the form of your biggest mistake.
You're listening to Mistakes That Made Me. I'm Eman Ismail, and if you loved this episode, take a screenshot, post it on Instagram and tell everyone you know that this is the podcast to listen to. And tag me @EmanCopyCo so we can say hi and so I can share your post.
You can find the links to everything I've mentioned today in the show notes.
Next time on mistakes that made me.
Star: I was just being trampled over, walked [00:51:00] over left and right from family expectation to like, intermediate family, like parents' expectations from colleagues from supervisors. I was just being trampled over left and right. And it just was, it was a horrible situation.
